Tony
Xenophon's Anabasis
Tony /
- Created on 2023-09-18 23:38:55
- Modified on 2023-09-18 23:44:31
- Translated by Tony Zhu
- Aligned by Tony
Republic
Tony /
- Created on 2024-02-22 18:40:35
- Modified on 2024-02-22 18:50:36
- Aligned by Tony
English
Ἑλληνική Transliterate
But speaking of this very thing , justice , are we to affirm thus without qualification that it is truth-telling and paying back what one has received from anyone , or may these very actions sometimes be just and sometimes unjust ? I mean , for example , as everyone I presume would admit , if one took over weapons from a friend who was in his right mind and then the lender should go mad and demand them back
Republic 337
Tony /
- Created on 2024-03-11 18:09:43
- Aligned by Tony
Ἑλληνική Transliterate
English
καὶ ὃς ἀκούσας ἀνεκάγχασέ τε μάλα σαρδάνιον καὶ εἶπεν : ὦ Ἡράκλεις , ἔφη , αὕτη ' κείνη ἡ εἰωθυῖα εἰρωνεία Σωκράτους , καὶ ταῦτ᾽ ἐγὼ ᾔδη τε καὶ τούτοις προύλεγον , ὅτι σὺ ἀποκρίνασθαι μὲν οὐκ ἐθελήσοις , εἰρωνεύσοιο δὲ καὶ πάντα μᾶλλον ποιήσοις ἢ ἀποκρινοῖο , εἴ τίς τί σε ἐρωτᾷ .
σοφὸς γὰρ εἶ , ἦν δ᾽ ἐγώ , ὦ Θρασύμαχε : εὖ οὖν ᾔδησθα ὅτι εἴ τινα ἔροιο ὁπόσα ἐστὶν τὰ δώδεκα , καὶ ἐρόμενος προείποις [ 337β ] αὐτῷ— ‘ὅπως μοι , ὦ ἄνθρωπε , μὴ ἐρεῖς ὅτι ἔστιν τὰ δώδεκα δὶς ἓξ μηδ᾽ ὅτι τρὶς τέτταρα μηδ᾽ ὅτι ἑξάκις δύο μηδ᾽ ὅτι τετράκις τρία : ὡς οὐκ ἀποδέξομαί σου ἐὰν τοιαῦτα φλυαρῇς’ —δῆλον οἶμαί σοι ἦν ὅτι οὐδεὶς ἀποκρινοῖτο τῷ οὕτως πυνθανομένῳ . ἀλλ᾽ εἴ σοι εἶπεν : ‘ὦ Θρασύμαχε , πῶς λέγεις ; μὴ ἀποκρίνωμαι ὧν προεῖπες μηδέν ; πότερον , ὦ θαυμάσιε , μηδ᾽ εἰ τούτων τι τυγχάνει ὄν , ἀλλ᾽ ἕτερον εἴπω τι [ 337ξ ] τοῦ ἀληθοῦς ; ἢ πῶς λέγεις ; ’ τί ἂν αὐτῷ εἶπες πρὸς ταῦτα ;
εἶεν , ἔφη : ὡς δὴ ὅμοιον τοῦτο ἐκείνῳ .
σοφὸς γὰρ εἶ , ἦν δ᾽ ἐγώ , ὦ Θρασύμαχε : εὖ οὖν ᾔδησθα ὅτι εἴ τινα ἔροιο ὁπόσα ἐστὶν τὰ δώδεκα , καὶ ἐρόμενος προείποις [ 337β ] αὐτῷ— ‘ὅπως μοι , ὦ ἄνθρωπε , μὴ ἐρεῖς ὅτι ἔστιν τὰ δώδεκα δὶς ἓξ μηδ᾽ ὅτι τρὶς τέτταρα μηδ᾽ ὅτι ἑξάκις δύο μηδ᾽ ὅτι τετράκις τρία : ὡς οὐκ ἀποδέξομαί σου ἐὰν τοιαῦτα φλυαρῇς’ —δῆλον οἶμαί σοι ἦν ὅτι οὐδεὶς ἀποκρινοῖτο τῷ οὕτως πυνθανομένῳ . ἀλλ᾽ εἴ σοι εἶπεν : ‘ὦ Θρασύμαχε , πῶς λέγεις ; μὴ ἀποκρίνωμαι ὧν προεῖπες μηδέν ; πότερον , ὦ θαυμάσιε , μηδ᾽ εἰ τούτων τι τυγχάνει ὄν , ἀλλ᾽ ἕτερον εἴπω τι [ 337ξ ] τοῦ ἀληθοῦς ; ἢ πῶς λέγεις ; ’ τί ἂν αὐτῷ εἶπες πρὸς ταῦτα ;
εἶεν , ἔφη : ὡς δὴ ὅμοιον τοῦτο ἐκείνῳ .
And
he
on
hearing
this
gave
a
great
guffaw
and
laughed
sardonically
and
said
,
"
Ye
gods
!
here
we
have
the
well-known
irony
of
Socrates
,
and
I
knew
it
and
predicted
that
when
it
came
to
replying
you
would
refuse
and
dissemble
and
do
anything
rather
than
answer
any
question
that
anyone
asked
you
.
"
"
That
'
s
because
you
are
wise
,
Thrasymachus
,
and
so
you
knew
very
well
that
if
you
asked
a
man
how
many
are
twelve
,
[
337b
]
and
in
putting
the
question
warned
him
:
don
'
t
you
be
telling
me
,
fellow
,
that
twelve
is
twice
six
or
three
times
four
or
six
times
two
or
four
times
three
,
for
I
won
'
t
accept
any
such
drivel
as
that
from
you
as
an
answer—it
was
obvious
I
fancy
to
you
that
no
one
could
give
an
answer
to
a
question
framed
in
that
fashion
.
Suppose
he
had
said
to
you
,
'
Thrasymachus
,
what
do
you
mean
?
Am
I
not
to
give
any
of
the
prohibited
answers
,
not
even
,
do
you
mean
to
say
,
if
the
thing
really
is
one
of
these
,
but
must
I
say
something
different
from
the
truth
,
[
337c
]
or
what
do
you
mean
?
'
What
would
have
been
your
answer
to
him
?
"
"
Humph
!
"
said
he
,
"
how
very
like
the
two
cases
are
!
"
Rep. 340a-b
Tony /
- Created on 2024-04-24 17:54:10
- Aligned by Tony
Ἑλληνική Transliterate
English
ναὶ μὰ Δί᾽ , ἔφη , ὦ Σώκρατες , ὁ Πολέμαρχος , σαφέστατά γε .
ἐὰν σύ γ᾽ , ἔφη , αὐτῷ μαρτυρήσῃς , ὁ Κλειτοφῶν ὑπολαβών .
καὶ τί , ἔφη , δεῖται μάρτυρος ; αὐτὸς γὰρ Θρασύμαχος ὁμολογεῖ τοὺς μὲν ἄρχοντας ἐνίοτε ἑαυτοῖς κακὰ προστάττειν , τοῖς δὲ δίκαιον εἶναι ταῦτα ποιεῖν .
τὸ γὰρ τὰ κελευόμενα ποιεῖν , ὦ Πολέμαρχε , ὑπὸ τῶν ἀρχόντων δίκαιον εἶναι ἔθετο Θρασύμαχος .
καὶ γὰρ τὸ τοῦ κρείττονος , ὦ Κλειτοφῶν , συμφέρον δίκαιον εἶναι ἔθετο . ταῦτα δὲ ἀμφότερα θέμενος ὡμολόγησεν αὖ ἐνίοτε τοὺς κρείττους τὰ αὑτοῖς ἀσύμφορα κελεύειν τοὺς ἥττους τε καὶ ἀρχομένους ποιεῖν . ἐκ δὲ τούτων τῶν ὁμολογιῶν οὐδὲν μᾶλλον τὸ τοῦ κρείττονος συμφέρον δίκαιον ἂν εἴη ἢ τὸ μὴ συμφέρον .
ἀλλ᾽ , ἔφη ὁ Κλειτοφῶν , τὸ τοῦ κρείττονος συμφέρον ἔλεγεν ὃ ἡγοῖτο ὁ κρείττων αὑτῷ συμφέρειν : τοῦτο ποιητέον εἶναι τῷ ἥττονι , καὶ τὸ δίκαιον τοῦτο ἐτίθετο .
ἀλλ᾽ οὐχ οὕτως , ἦ δ᾽ ὃς ὁ Πολέμαρχος , ἐλέγετο .
ἐὰν σύ γ᾽ , ἔφη , αὐτῷ μαρτυρήσῃς , ὁ Κλειτοφῶν ὑπολαβών .
καὶ τί , ἔφη , δεῖται μάρτυρος ; αὐτὸς γὰρ Θρασύμαχος ὁμολογεῖ τοὺς μὲν ἄρχοντας ἐνίοτε ἑαυτοῖς κακὰ προστάττειν , τοῖς δὲ δίκαιον εἶναι ταῦτα ποιεῖν .
τὸ γὰρ τὰ κελευόμενα ποιεῖν , ὦ Πολέμαρχε , ὑπὸ τῶν ἀρχόντων δίκαιον εἶναι ἔθετο Θρασύμαχος .
καὶ γὰρ τὸ τοῦ κρείττονος , ὦ Κλειτοφῶν , συμφέρον δίκαιον εἶναι ἔθετο . ταῦτα δὲ ἀμφότερα θέμενος ὡμολόγησεν αὖ ἐνίοτε τοὺς κρείττους τὰ αὑτοῖς ἀσύμφορα κελεύειν τοὺς ἥττους τε καὶ ἀρχομένους ποιεῖν . ἐκ δὲ τούτων τῶν ὁμολογιῶν οὐδὲν μᾶλλον τὸ τοῦ κρείττονος συμφέρον δίκαιον ἂν εἴη ἢ τὸ μὴ συμφέρον .
ἀλλ᾽ , ἔφη ὁ Κλειτοφῶν , τὸ τοῦ κρείττονος συμφέρον ἔλεγεν ὃ ἡγοῖτο ὁ κρείττων αὑτῷ συμφέρειν : τοῦτο ποιητέον εἶναι τῷ ἥττονι , καὶ τὸ δίκαιον τοῦτο ἐτίθετο .
ἀλλ᾽ οὐχ οὕτως , ἦ δ᾽ ὃς ὁ Πολέμαρχος , ἐλέγετο .
"
Yes
,
by
Zeus
,
Socrates
,
"
said
Polemarchus
,
"
nothing
could
be
more
conclusive
.
"
"
Of
course
,
"
said
Cleitophon
,
breaking
in
,
"
if
you
are
his
witness
.
"
1
"
What
need
is
there
of
a
witness
?
"
Polemarchus
said
.
"
Thrasymachus
himself
admits
that
the
rulers
sometimes
enjoin
what
is
evil
for
themselves
and
yet
says
that
it
is
just
for
the
subjects
to
do
this
.
"
"
That
,
Polemarchus
,
is
because
Thrasymachus
laid
it
down
that
it
is
just
to
obey
the
orders2
of
the
rulers
.
"
"
Yes
,
Cleitophon
,
but
he
also
took
the
position
that
the
advantage
of
the
stronger
is
just
.
And
after
these
two
assumptions
he
again
admitted
that
the
stronger
sometimes
bid
the
inferior
and
their
subjects
do
what
is
to
the
disadvantage
of
the
rulers
.
And
from
these
admissions
the
just
would
no
more
be
the
advantage
of
the
stronger
than
the
contrary
.
"
"
O
well
,
"
said
Cleitophon
,
"
by
the
advantage
of
the
superior
he
meant
what
the
superior
supposed
to
be
for
his
advantage
.
This
was
what
the
inferior
had
to
do
,
and
that
this
is
the
just
was
his
position
.
"
"
That
isn
'
t
what
he
said
,
"
replied
Polemarchus
.