Plato's Republic 1.337ξ-ε
Estill Loyd /
- Created on 2024-03-12 01:10:00
- Modified on 2024-03-14 00:17:48
- Aligned by Estill Loyd
Ἑλληνική Transliterate
English
οὐδέν γε κωλύει , ἦν δ᾽ ἐγώ : εἰ δ᾽ οὖν καὶ μὴ ἔστιν ὅμοιον , φαίνεται δὲ τῷ ἐρωτηθέντι τοιοῦτον , ἧττόν τι αὐτὸν οἴει ἀποκρινεῖσθαι τὸ φαινόμενον ἑαυτῷ , ἐάντε ἡμεῖς ἀπαγορεύωμεν ἐάντε μή ;
ἄλλο τι οὖν , ἔφη , καὶ σὺ οὕτω ποιήσεις : ὧν ἐγὼ ἀπεῖπον , τούτων τι ἀποκρινῇ ;
οὐκ ἂν θαυμάσαιμι , ἦν δ᾽ ἐγώ : εἴ μοι σκεψαμένῳ οὕτω δόξειεν . [ 337δ ]
τί οὖν , ἔφη , ἂν ἐγὼ δείξω ἑτέραν ἀπόκρισιν παρὰ πάσας ταύτας περὶ δικαιοσύνης , βελτίω τούτων ; τί ἀξιοῖς παθεῖν ;
τί ἄλλο , ἦν δ᾽ ἐγώ , ἢ ὅπερ προσήκει πάσχειν τῷ μὴ εἰδότι ; προσήκει δέ που μαθεῖν παρὰ τοῦ εἰδότος : καὶ ἐγὼ οὖν τοῦτο ἀξιῶ παθεῖν .
ἡδὺς γὰρ εἶ , ἔφη : ἀλλὰ πρὸς τῷ μαθεῖν καὶ ἀπότεισον ἀργύριον .
οὐκοῦν ἐπειδάν μοι γένηται , εἶπον .
ἀλλ᾽ ἔστιν , ἔφη ὁ Γλαύκων . ἀλλ᾽ ἕνεκα ἀργυρίου , ὦ Θρασύμαχε , λέγε : πάντες γὰρ ἡμεῖς Σωκράτει εἰσοίσομεν . [ 337ε ]
πάνυ γε οἶμαι , ἦ δ᾽ ὅς : ἵνα Σωκράτης τὸ εἰωθὸς διαπράξηται : αὐτὸς μὲν μὴ ἀποκρίνηται , ἄλλου δ᾽ ἀποκρινομένου λαμβάνῃ λόγον καὶ ἐλέγχῃ .
ἄλλο τι οὖν , ἔφη , καὶ σὺ οὕτω ποιήσεις : ὧν ἐγὼ ἀπεῖπον , τούτων τι ἀποκρινῇ ;
οὐκ ἂν θαυμάσαιμι , ἦν δ᾽ ἐγώ : εἴ μοι σκεψαμένῳ οὕτω δόξειεν . [ 337δ ]
τί οὖν , ἔφη , ἂν ἐγὼ δείξω ἑτέραν ἀπόκρισιν παρὰ πάσας ταύτας περὶ δικαιοσύνης , βελτίω τούτων ; τί ἀξιοῖς παθεῖν ;
τί ἄλλο , ἦν δ᾽ ἐγώ , ἢ ὅπερ προσήκει πάσχειν τῷ μὴ εἰδότι ; προσήκει δέ που μαθεῖν παρὰ τοῦ εἰδότος : καὶ ἐγὼ οὖν τοῦτο ἀξιῶ παθεῖν .
ἡδὺς γὰρ εἶ , ἔφη : ἀλλὰ πρὸς τῷ μαθεῖν καὶ ἀπότεισον ἀργύριον .
οὐκοῦν ἐπειδάν μοι γένηται , εἶπον .
ἀλλ᾽ ἔστιν , ἔφη ὁ Γλαύκων . ἀλλ᾽ ἕνεκα ἀργυρίου , ὦ Θρασύμαχε , λέγε : πάντες γὰρ ἡμεῖς Σωκράτει εἰσοίσομεν . [ 337ε ]
πάνυ γε οἶμαι , ἦ δ᾽ ὅς : ἵνα Σωκράτης τὸ εἰωθὸς διαπράξηται : αὐτὸς μὲν μὴ ἀποκρίνηται , ἄλλου δ᾽ ἀποκρινομένου λαμβάνῃ λόγον καὶ ἐλέγχῃ .
"
I
can
'
t
see
why
it
shouldn
'
t
be
,
"
I
said
,
"
but
even
assuming
the
examples
are
not
alike
,
yet
appear
so
to
the
person
questioned
,
do
you
think
he
is
any
less
likely
to
give
what
he
thinks
is
the
right
answer
,
whether
we
forbid
him
to
or
not
?
"
" So you ' re going to do it in some other way , is that it ? " he asked : " you ' re going to give one of the anwers I ' ve forbidden ? "
" I wouldn ' t be suprised , " I said , " if on reflection I decided to do that . "
" So what if I demonstrate that there is an answer about justice which is different from all these and better ? What penalty ought you to incur ? "
" What else , " I said , " than what is fitting for the man who doesn ' t know ? I think it is fitting to learn from those who know . So that ' s what I propose as my penalty . "
" You play the innocent ! " he said , " but along with the learning you must pay some money too . "
" Sure ! Whenever I get some , " I said .
" Oh there is some , " said Glaucon ; " if money is the problem , go ahead , Thrasymachus , for we ' ll all chip in for Socrates . "
" Oh yes , I ' m sure you will , " he said , " so that Socrates can do his usual trick , not answer himself , but demand an explanation and refute someone else ' s attempt . "
" So you ' re going to do it in some other way , is that it ? " he asked : " you ' re going to give one of the anwers I ' ve forbidden ? "
" I wouldn ' t be suprised , " I said , " if on reflection I decided to do that . "
" So what if I demonstrate that there is an answer about justice which is different from all these and better ? What penalty ought you to incur ? "
" What else , " I said , " than what is fitting for the man who doesn ' t know ? I think it is fitting to learn from those who know . So that ' s what I propose as my penalty . "
" You play the innocent ! " he said , " but along with the learning you must pay some money too . "
" Sure ! Whenever I get some , " I said .
" Oh there is some , " said Glaucon ; " if money is the problem , go ahead , Thrasymachus , for we ' ll all chip in for Socrates . "
" Oh yes , I ' m sure you will , " he said , " so that Socrates can do his usual trick , not answer himself , but demand an explanation and refute someone else ' s attempt . "