Michael Smith
Phaedrus vs. Aristophanes
Michael Smith /
- Created on 2026-03-04 03:53:16
- Modified on 2026-03-04 15:42:58
- Translated by Guess who
- Aligned by Michael Smith
Ἑλληνική Transliterate
English
Φαῖδρος :
[ Ὅ ] θεν δὴ καὶ ὑπεραγασθέντες οἱ θεοὶ διαφερόντως αὐτὸν ἐτίμησαν , ὅτι τὸν ἐραστὴν οὕτω περὶ πολλοῦ ἐποιεῖτο . Αἰσχύλος δὲ φλυαρεῖ φάσκων Ἀχιλλέα Πατρόκλου ἐρᾶν , ὃς ἦν καλλίων οὐ μόνον Πατρόκλου ἀλλ᾽ ἅμα καὶ τῶν ἡρώων ἁπάντων , καὶ ἔτι ἀγένειος , ἔπειτα νεώτερος πολύ , ὥς φησιν Ὅμηρος . ἀλλὰ γὰρ τῷ ὄντι μάλιστα μὲν ταύτην τὴν ἀρετὴν οἱ θεοὶ τιμῶσιν τὴν περὶ [ 180β ] τὸν ἔρωτα , μᾶλλον μέντοι θαυμάζουσιν καὶ ἄγανται καὶ εὖ ποιοῦσιν ὅταν ὁ ἐρώμενος τὸν ἐραστὴν ἀγαπᾷ , ἢ ὅταν ὁ ἐραστὴς τὰ παιδικά . θειότερον γὰρ ἐραστὴς παιδικῶν : ἔνθεος γάρ ἐστι . διὰ ταῦτα καὶ τὸν Ἀχιλλέα τῆς Ἀλκήστιδος μᾶλλον ἐτίμησαν .
Ἀριστοφάνης :
[ Ὁ ] οὖν Ζεὺς καὶ οἱ ἄλλοι θεοὶ ἐβουλεύοντο ὅτι χρὴ αὐτοὺς ποιῆσαι , καὶ ἠπόρουν : οὔτε γὰρ ὅπως ἀποκτείναιεν εἶχον καὶ ὥσπερ τοὺς γίγαντας κεραυνώσαντες τὸ γένος ἀφανίσαιεν—αἱ τιμαὶ γὰρ αὐτοῖς καὶ ἱερὰ τὰ παρὰ τῶν ἀνθρώπων ἠφανίζετο— οὔτε ὅπως ἐῷεν ἀσελγαίνειν . μόγις δὴ ὁ Ζεὺς ἐννοήσας λέγει ὅτι ‘δοκῶ μοι , ’ ἔφη , ‘ἔχειν μηχανήν , ὡς ἂν εἶέν τε ἅνθρωποι καὶ παύσαιντο τῆς ἀκολασίας ἀσθενέστεροι [ . . . . ]
[ Ὅ ] θεν δὴ καὶ ὑπεραγασθέντες οἱ θεοὶ διαφερόντως αὐτὸν ἐτίμησαν , ὅτι τὸν ἐραστὴν οὕτω περὶ πολλοῦ ἐποιεῖτο . Αἰσχύλος δὲ φλυαρεῖ φάσκων Ἀχιλλέα Πατρόκλου ἐρᾶν , ὃς ἦν καλλίων οὐ μόνον Πατρόκλου ἀλλ᾽ ἅμα καὶ τῶν ἡρώων ἁπάντων , καὶ ἔτι ἀγένειος , ἔπειτα νεώτερος πολύ , ὥς φησιν Ὅμηρος . ἀλλὰ γὰρ τῷ ὄντι μάλιστα μὲν ταύτην τὴν ἀρετὴν οἱ θεοὶ τιμῶσιν τὴν περὶ [ 180β ] τὸν ἔρωτα , μᾶλλον μέντοι θαυμάζουσιν καὶ ἄγανται καὶ εὖ ποιοῦσιν ὅταν ὁ ἐρώμενος τὸν ἐραστὴν ἀγαπᾷ , ἢ ὅταν ὁ ἐραστὴς τὰ παιδικά . θειότερον γὰρ ἐραστὴς παιδικῶν : ἔνθεος γάρ ἐστι . διὰ ταῦτα καὶ τὸν Ἀχιλλέα τῆς Ἀλκήστιδος μᾶλλον ἐτίμησαν .
Ἀριστοφάνης :
[ Ὁ ] οὖν Ζεὺς καὶ οἱ ἄλλοι θεοὶ ἐβουλεύοντο ὅτι χρὴ αὐτοὺς ποιῆσαι , καὶ ἠπόρουν : οὔτε γὰρ ὅπως ἀποκτείναιεν εἶχον καὶ ὥσπερ τοὺς γίγαντας κεραυνώσαντες τὸ γένος ἀφανίσαιεν—αἱ τιμαὶ γὰρ αὐτοῖς καὶ ἱερὰ τὰ παρὰ τῶν ἀνθρώπων ἠφανίζετο— οὔτε ὅπως ἐῷεν ἀσελγαίνειν . μόγις δὴ ὁ Ζεὺς ἐννοήσας λέγει ὅτι ‘δοκῶ μοι , ’ ἔφη , ‘ἔχειν μηχανήν , ὡς ἂν εἶέν τε ἅνθρωποι καὶ παύσαιντο τῆς ἀκολασίας ἀσθενέστεροι [ . . . . ]
Phaedrus
:
Very different was the reward of the true love of
Achilles towards his lover Patroclus--his lover and not his love ( the
notion that Patroclus was the beloved one is a foolish error into which
Aeschylus has fallen , for Achilles was surely the fairer of the two ,
fairer also than all the other heroes ; and , as Homer informs us , he was
still beardless , and younger far ) . And greatly as the gods honour the
virtue of love , still the return of love on the part of the beloved to
the lover is more admired and valued and rewarded by them , for the lover
is more divine ; because he is inspired by God .
Aristophanes :
Doubt reigned in the celestial councils .
Should they kill them and annihilate the race with thunderbolts , as they
had done the giants , then there would be an end of the sacrifices and
worship which men offered to them ; but , on the other hand , the gods
could not suffer their insolence to be unrestrained . At last , after a
good deal of reflection , Zeus discovered a way . He said : ' Methinks I
have a plan which will humble their pride and improve their manners ; men
shall continue to exist , but I will cut them in two and then they will
be diminished in strength and increased in numbers ; this will have the
advantage of making them more profitable to us .
Very different was the reward of the true love of
Achilles towards his lover Patroclus--his lover and not his love ( the
notion that Patroclus was the beloved one is a foolish error into which
Aeschylus has fallen , for Achilles was surely the fairer of the two ,
fairer also than all the other heroes ; and , as Homer informs us , he was
still beardless , and younger far ) . And greatly as the gods honour the
virtue of love , still the return of love on the part of the beloved to
the lover is more admired and valued and rewarded by them , for the lover
is more divine ; because he is inspired by God .
Aristophanes :
Doubt reigned in the celestial councils .
Should they kill them and annihilate the race with thunderbolts , as they
had done the giants , then there would be an end of the sacrifices and
worship which men offered to them ; but , on the other hand , the gods
could not suffer their insolence to be unrestrained . At last , after a
good deal of reflection , Zeus discovered a way . He said : ' Methinks I
have a plan which will humble their pride and improve their manners ; men
shall continue to exist , but I will cut them in two and then they will
be diminished in strength and increased in numbers ; this will have the
advantage of making them more profitable to us .
My stab at 193b, and somebody else's
Michael Smith /
- Created on 2026-04-17 06:28:06
- Modified on 2026-04-17 06:29:33
- Aligned by Michael Smith
English
Ἑλληνική
English
. . . in order that we may escape harm and attain to bliss under the gallant leadership of Love . Let none in act oppose him — and it is opposing him to incur the hate of Heaven : if we make friends with the god and are reconciled , we shall have the fortune that falls to few in our day , of discovering our proper favorites .
. . . ἵνα τὰ μὲν ἐκφύγωμεν , τῶν δὲ τύχωμεν , ὡς ὁ Ἔρως ἡμῖν ἡγεμὼν καὶ στρατηγός . ᾧ μηδεὶς ἐναντία πραττέτω — πράττει δ᾽ ἐναντία ὅστις θεοῖς ἀπεχθάνεται — φίλοι γὰρ γενόμενοι καὶ διαλλαγέντες τῷ θεῷ ἐξευρήσομέν τε καὶ ἐντευξόμεθα τοῖς παιδικοῖς τοῖς ἡμετέροις αὐτῶν , ὃ τῶν νῦν ὀλίγοι ποιοῦσι .
… so that we may flee those [ bad things , mentioned earlier ] , and meet with these [ good things , ditto ] , insofar as Eros [ is ] to us lord and general . Let no one act against Him , for whoever acts against [ them ] becomes detested by the Gods . So having become friends and familiars to the God , we shall find and meet with , in our own beloved boys , those [ good things ] which few men nowadays do with them [ i . e . their own boys ] .