Estill Loyd
Tufts University
Plato's Republic 1.342ξ
Estill Loyd /
- Created on 2024-05-06 20:36:08
- Aligned by Estill Loyd
Ἑλληνική Transliterate
Ἑλληνική Transliterate
οὐκ ἄρα , ἦν δ᾽ ἐγώ , ἰατρικὴ ἰατρικῇ τὸ συμφέρον σκοπεῖ ἀλλὰ σώματι .
ναί , ἔφη .
οὐδὲ ἱππικὴ ἱππικῇ ἀλλ᾽ ἵπποις : οὐδὲ ἄλλη τέχνη οὐδεμία ἑαυτῇ — οὐδὲ γὰρ προσδεῖται — ἀλλ᾽ ἐκείνῳ οὗ τέχνη ἐστίν .
φαίνεται , ἔφη , οὕτως .
ἀλλὰ μήν , ὦ Θρασύμαχε , ἄρχουσί γε αἱ τέχναι καὶ κρατοῦσιν ἐκείνου οὗπέρ εἰσιν τέχναι .
συνεχώρησεν ἐνταῦθα καὶ μάλα μόγις .
οὐκ ἄρα ἐπιστήμη γε οὐδεμία τὸ τοῦ κρείττονος συμφέρον σκοπεῖ οὐδ᾽ ἐπιτάττει , ἀλλὰ τὸ τοῦ ἥττονός τε καὶ ἀρχομένου ὑπὸ ἑαυτῆς .
ναί , ἔφη .
οὐδὲ ἱππικὴ ἱππικῇ ἀλλ᾽ ἵπποις : οὐδὲ ἄλλη τέχνη οὐδεμία ἑαυτῇ — οὐδὲ γὰρ προσδεῖται — ἀλλ᾽ ἐκείνῳ οὗ τέχνη ἐστίν .
φαίνεται , ἔφη , οὕτως .
ἀλλὰ μήν , ὦ Θρασύμαχε , ἄρχουσί γε αἱ τέχναι καὶ κρατοῦσιν ἐκείνου οὗπέρ εἰσιν τέχναι .
συνεχώρησεν ἐνταῦθα καὶ μάλα μόγις .
οὐκ ἄρα ἐπιστήμη γε οὐδεμία τὸ τοῦ κρείττονος συμφέρον σκοπεῖ οὐδ᾽ ἐπιτάττει , ἀλλὰ τὸ τοῦ ἥττονός τε καὶ ἀρχομένου ὑπὸ ἑαυτῆς .
So
,
I
said
,
the
art
of
medicine
does
not
consider
the
advantage
of
medicine
but
the
body
?
Yes , he replied .
And the art of horsemanship does not ( consider the advantage ) of horsemanship but the horses : nor does any other art ( consider the advantage ) — for it has no shortcomings — but for that of which it is the art .
It seems this way , he said .
But surely , O Thrasymachus , the arts rule and are stronger than that of which they are the arts .
Herein he conceded , but with great difficulty .
So no knowledge considers the advantage of the stronger nor imposes commands , but that of the weaker ( person ) who is ruled by it .
Yes , he replied .
And the art of horsemanship does not ( consider the advantage ) of horsemanship but the horses : nor does any other art ( consider the advantage ) — for it has no shortcomings — but for that of which it is the art .
It seems this way , he said .
But surely , O Thrasymachus , the arts rule and are stronger than that of which they are the arts .
Herein he conceded , but with great difficulty .
So no knowledge considers the advantage of the stronger nor imposes commands , but that of the weaker ( person ) who is ruled by it .
Plato's Republic 1.342δ
Estill Loyd /
- Created on 2024-05-06 21:19:12
- Aligned by Estill Loyd
Ἑλληνική Transliterate
Ἑλληνική Transliterate
συνωμολόγησε μὲν καὶ ταῦτα τελευτῶν , ἐπεχείρει δὲ περὶ αὐτὰ μάχεσθαι : ἐπειδὴ δὲ ὡμολόγησεν , ἄλλο τι οὖν , ἦν δ᾽ ἐγώ , οὐδὲ ἰατρὸς οὐδείς , καθ᾽ ὅσον ἰατρός , τὸ τῷ ἰατρῷ συμφέρον σκοπεῖ οὐδ᾽ ἐπιτάττει , ἀλλὰ τὸ τῷ κάμνοντι ; ὡμολόγηται γὰρ ὁ ἀκριβὴς ἰατρὸς σωμάτων εἶναι ἄρχων ἀλλ᾽ οὐ χρηματιστής . ἢ οὐχ ὡμολόγηται ;
συνέφη .
οὐκοῦν καὶ ὁ κυβερνήτης ὁ ἀκριβὴς ναυτῶν εἶναι ἄρχων ἀλλ᾽ οὐ ναύτης ;
συνέφη .
οὐκοῦν καὶ ὁ κυβερνήτης ὁ ἀκριβὴς ναυτῶν εἶναι ἄρχων ἀλλ᾽ οὐ ναύτης ;
He
agreed
to
this
at
last
,
but
attempted
to
fight
against
it
.
But
since
he
had
agreed
,
I
said
:
"
So
in
other
words
,
no
physician
,
insofar
as
he
is
a
physician
,
considers
nor
commmands
the
advantage
of
the
physician
,
but
that
of
the
patient
?
For
it
has
been
agreed
,
precisely
,
that
the
physician
is
a
ruler
of
bodies
but
not
a
money-maker
.
Or
was
it
not
agreed
?
"
He assented .
And so the precise steersman is a ruler of sailors , but not a sailor ?
He assented .
And so the precise steersman is a ruler of sailors , but not a sailor ?
Plato's Republic 1.342ε
Estill Loyd /
- Created on 2024-05-06 21:50:35
- Aligned by Estill Loyd
Ἑλληνική Transliterate
Ἑλληνική Transliterate
ὡμολόγηται .
οὐκ ἄρα ὅ γε τοιοῦτος κυβερνήτης τε καὶ ἄρχων τὸ τῷ κυβερνήτῃ συμφέρον σκέψεταί τε καὶ προστάξει , ἀλλὰ τὸ τῷ ναύτῃ τε καὶ ἀρχομένῳ .
συνέφησε μόγις .
οὐκοῦν , ἦν δ᾽ ἐγώ , ὦ Θρασύμαχε , οὐδὲ ἄλλος οὐδεὶς ἐν οὐδεμιᾷ ἀρχῇ , καθ᾽ ὅσον ἄρχων ἐστίν , τὸ αὑτῷ συμφέρον σκοπεῖ οὐδ᾽ ἐπιτάττει , ἀλλὰ τὸ τῷ ἀρχομένῳ καὶ ᾧ ἂν αὐτὸς δημιουργῇ , καὶ πρὸς ἐκεῖνο βλέπων καὶ τὸ ἐκείνῳ συμφέρον καὶ πρέπον , καὶ λέγει ἃ λέγει καὶ ποιεῖ ἃ ποιεῖ ἅπαντα .
οὐκ ἄρα ὅ γε τοιοῦτος κυβερνήτης τε καὶ ἄρχων τὸ τῷ κυβερνήτῃ συμφέρον σκέψεταί τε καὶ προστάξει , ἀλλὰ τὸ τῷ ναύτῃ τε καὶ ἀρχομένῳ .
συνέφησε μόγις .
οὐκοῦν , ἦν δ᾽ ἐγώ , ὦ Θρασύμαχε , οὐδὲ ἄλλος οὐδεὶς ἐν οὐδεμιᾷ ἀρχῇ , καθ᾽ ὅσον ἄρχων ἐστίν , τὸ αὑτῷ συμφέρον σκοπεῖ οὐδ᾽ ἐπιτάττει , ἀλλὰ τὸ τῷ ἀρχομένῳ καὶ ᾧ ἂν αὐτὸς δημιουργῇ , καὶ πρὸς ἐκεῖνο βλέπων καὶ τὸ ἐκείνῳ συμφέρον καὶ πρέπον , καὶ λέγει ἃ λέγει καὶ ποιεῖ ἃ ποιεῖ ἅπαντα .
That
was
agreed
.
So a steersman and a ruler such as this will not consider and enjoin the advantage of the steersman , but that of the sailor whose ruler he is .
He assented reluctantly .
Then , I said , O Thrasymachus , nobody at all in any ruling position , insofar as he is a ruler , considers nor enjoins his own advantage , but that of whom he rules and for whom he does his craft , and it is by looking to that , and to what is advantageous and seemly , that he says all that he says and does all that he does .
So a steersman and a ruler such as this will not consider and enjoin the advantage of the steersman , but that of the sailor whose ruler he is .
He assented reluctantly .
Then , I said , O Thrasymachus , nobody at all in any ruling position , insofar as he is a ruler , considers nor enjoins his own advantage , but that of whom he rules and for whom he does his craft , and it is by looking to that , and to what is advantageous and seemly , that he says all that he says and does all that he does .