L P / Final Project

Augustana College

Tusculan Disputations book 5

L P / Final Project
  • Created on 2021-11-23 17:39:47
  • Modified on 2021-11-23 21:09:30
  • Aligned by L P
Latin
English
Non mihi videtur ad beate vivendum satis posse virtutem .
At hercule Bruto meo videtur , cuius ego iudicium , pace tua dixerim , longe antepono tuo .
Non dubito , nec id nunc agitur , tu illum quantum ames , sed hoc , quod mihi dixi videri , quale sit , de quo a te disputari volo .
Nempe negas ad beate vivendum satis posse virtutem ?
Prorsus nego .
Quid ? ad recte honeste laudabiliter , postremo ad bene vivendum satisne est praesidi in virtute ?
Certe satis .
Potes igitur aut , qui male vivat , non eum miserum dicere aut , quem bene fateare , eum negare beate vivere ?
Quidni possim ? nam etiam in tormentis recte honeste laudabiliter et ob eam rem bene vivi potest , dum modo intellegas , quid nunc dicam bene . dico enim constanter graviter sapienter fortiter . haec etiam in eculeum coiciuntur , quo vita non adspirat beata .
Quid igitur ? solane beata vita , quaeso , relinquitur extra ostium limenque carceris , cum constantia gravitas fortitudo sapientia reliquaeque virtutes rapiantur ad tortorem nullumque recusent nec supplicium nec dolorem ?
Tu , si quid es facturus , nova aliqua conquiras oportet ; ista me minime movent , non solum quia pervulgata sunt , sed multo magis , quia , tamquam levia quaedam vina nihil valent in aqua , sic Stoicorum ista magis gustata quam potata delectant . velut iste chorus virtutum in eculeum impositus imagines constituit ante oculos cum amplissima dignitate , ut ad eas cursim perrectura nec eas beata vita a se desertas passura videatur ; cum autem animum ab ista pictura imaginibusque virtutum ad rem veritatemque traduxeris , hoc nudum relinquitur , possitne quis beatus esse , quam diu torqueatur . quam ob rem hoc nunc quaeramus ; virtutes autem noli vereri ne expostulent et querantur se a beata vita esse relictas . si enim nulla virtus prudentia vacat , prudentia ipsa hoc videt , non omnis bonos esse etiam beatos , multaque de M . Atilio Q . Caepione M ' . Aquilio recordatur , beatamque vitam , si imaginibus potius uti quam rebus ipsis placet , conantem ire in eculeum retinet ipsa prudentia negatque ei cum dolore et cruciatu quicquam esse commune .
A . I do not think virtue can possibly be sufficient for a happy life .
M . But my friend Brutus thinks so , whose judgment , with submission , I greatly prefer to yours .
A . I make no doubt of it ; but your regard for him is not the business now ; the question is now what is the real character of that quality of which I have declared my opinion . I wish you to dispute on that .
M . What ! do you deny that virtue can possibly be sufficient for a happy life ?
A . It is what I entirely deny .
M . What ! is not virtue sufficient to enable us to live as we ought , honestly , commendably , or , in fine , to live well ?
A . Certainly sufficient .
M . Can you , then , help calling anyone miserable , who lives ill ? or will you deny that anyone who you allow lives well , must inevitably live happily ?
A . Why may I not ? for a man may be upright in his life , honest , praiseworthy , even in the midst of torments , and therefore live well . Provided you understand what I mean by well ; for when I say well , I mean with constancy , and dignity , and wisdom , and courage ; [ 13 ] L for a man may display all these qualities on the rack ; but yet the rack is inconsistent with a happy life .
M . What then ? is your happy life left on the outside of the prison , whilst constancy , dignity , wisdom , and the other virtues , are surrendered up to the executioner , and bear punishment and pain without reluctance ?
A . You must look out for something new , if you would do any good . These things have very little effect on me , not merely from their being common , but principally because , like certain light wines , that will not bear water , these arguments of the Stoics are pleasanter to taste than to swallow . As when that assemblage of virtues is committed to the rack , it raises so reverend a spectacle before our eyes , that happiness seems to hasten on towards them , and not to suffer them to be deserted by her . [ 14 ] But when you take your attention off from this picture and these images of the virtues , to the truth and the reality , what remains without disguise is , the question whether anyone can be happy in torment ? Wherefore let us now examine that point , and not be under any apprehensions , lest the virtues should expostulate and complain , that they are forsaken by happiness . For if prudence is connected with every virtue , then prudence itself discovers this , that all good men are not therefore happy ; and she recollects many things of Marcus Atilius , ** Quintus Caepio , ** Marcus Aquilius ; ** and prudence herself , if these representations are more agreeable to you than the things themselves , restrains happiness , when it is endeavouring to throw itself into torments , and denies that it has any connexion with pain and torture

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True Final Project

L P / Final Project
  • Created on 2021-12-09 04:45:18
  • Modified on 2021-12-09 07:18:35
  • Translated by Younge
  • Aligned by L P
Latin
English
Quid ? ad recte honeste laudabiliter , postremo ad bene vivendum satisne est praesidi in virtute ?
Certe satis .
Potes igitur aut , qui male vivat , non eum miserum dicere aut , quem bene fateare , eum negare beate vivere ?
Quidni possim ? nam etiam in tormentis recte honeste laudabiliter et ob eam rem bene vivi potest , dum modo intellegas , quid nunc dicam bene . dico enim constanter graviter sapienter fortiter . haec etiam in eculeum coiciuntur , quo vita non adspirat beata .
Quid igitur ? solane beata vita , quaeso , relinquitur extra ostium limenque carceris , cum constantia gravitas fortitudo sapientia reliquaeque virtutes rapiantur ad tortorem nullumque recusent nec supplicium nec dolorem ?
Tu , si quid es facturus , nova aliqua conquiras oportet ; ista me minime movent , non solum quia pervulgata sunt , sed multo magis , quia , tamquam levia quaedam vina nihil valent in aqua , sic Stoicorum ista magis gustata quam potata delectant . velut iste chorus virtutum in eculeum impositus imagines constituit ante oculos cum amplissima dignitate , ut ad eas cursim perrectura nec eas beata vita a se desertas passura videatur ; cum autem animum ab ista pictura imaginibusque virtutum ad rem veritatemque traduxeris , hoc nudum relinquitur , possitne quis beatus esse , quam diu torqueatur . quam ob rem hoc nunc quaeramus ; virtutes autem noli vereri ne expostulent et querantur se a beata vita esse relictas . si enim nulla virtus prudentia vacat , prudentia ipsa hoc videt , non omnis bonos esse etiam beatos , multaque de M . Atilio Q . Caepione M . Aquilio recordatur , beatamque vitam , si imaginibus potius uti quam rebus ipsis placet , conantem ire in eculeum retinet ipsa prudentia negatque ei cum dolore et cruciatu quicquam esse commune .
M . What ! is not virtue sufficient to enable us to live as we ought , honestly , commendably , or , in fine , to live well ?
A . Certainly sufficient .
M . Can you , then , help calling anyone miserable , who lives ill ? or will you deny that anyone who you allow lives well , must inevitably live happily ?
A . Why may I not ? for a man may be upright in his life , honest , praiseworthy , even in the midst of torments , and therefore live well . Provided you understand what I mean by well ; for when I say well , I mean with constancy , and dignity , and wisdom , and courage ; [ 13 ] L for a man may display all these qualities on the rack ; but yet the rack is inconsistent with a happy life .
M . What then ? is your happy life left on the outside of the prison , whilst constancy , dignity , wisdom , and the other virtues , are surrendered up to the executioner , and bear punishment and pain without reluctance ?
A . You must look out for something new , if you would do any good . These things have very little effect on me , not merely from their being common , but principally because , like certain light wines , that will not bear water , these arguments of the Stoics are pleasanter to taste than to swallow . As when that assemblage of virtues is committed to the rack , it raises so reverend a spectacle before our eyes , that happiness seems to hasten on towards them , and not to suffer them to be deserted by her . [ 14 ] But when you take your attention off from this picture and these images of the virtues , to the truth and the reality , what remains without disguise is , the question whether anyone can be happy in torment ? Wherefore let us now examine that point , and not be under any apprehensions , lest the virtues should expostulate and complain , that they are forsaken by happiness . For if prudence is connected with every virtue , then prudence itself discovers this , that all good men are not therefore happy ; and she recollects many things of Marcus Atilius , ** Quintus Caepio , ** Marcus Aquilius ; ** and prudence herself , if these representations are more agreeable to you than the things themselves , restrains happiness , when it is endeavouring to throw itself into torments , and denies that it has any connexion with pain and torture .

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